Or: Why do you need to know this?

(Actually, I DON’T need to know this.)

That’s a good way to lose sales.

I just give them a quote, and then throw in that that if their budget is tight at the moment, we could work out an arrangement.

I always need to know more before quoting a price. That is common with experienced copywriters who work for major or small businesses.

I have had to charge a bit more, or I landed up charging less after knowing more about their project.

Maybe I didn’t read that section right, but,
I’m sorry, I don’t know where you got that one.

One has to know more. That is just common sense.

I do put my rates on my site, but it ranges form $100 up to $1,200.

That saves from having to have a price menu, that can actually take up a whole page.

Although I don’t agree with everything, thanks for the read.

Pretty good article but I will politely disagree a bit with you on points 1 & 2. My view on #2 was stated beautifully by Bnonn so I don’t see the need to repeat their well-thought and accurate explanation of how many ethical copywriters who ask about potential budgets operate.

Onto the first point.

When I started my copywriting career, I had a list of services and my normal fee for each one and here’s what I discovered: Prospects and clients would ask for plenty of other types of marketing pieces besides what I already had listed on my site. Since I write both offline and online marketing, we’re talking about a large variety of marketing pieces and even projects.

As I got different requests, I kept updating my copywriting list of services… until it started to resemble a Chinese restaurant menu. Then I started getting emails where prospects told me they couldn’t find what they were looking for on the menu… and could they get a quote for their specific needs.

The other thing I discovered was having a list of services really needs its own webpage. Otherwise, you’re breaking up the flow of your salescopy that’s promoting your copywriting business to present the “menu”.

The other problem with a menu approach is if you offer any type of multi-piece discount for a project. If you try to list every possible combination of “combo meals”, that makes the menu even longer.

Anyways, that’s been my experience and therefore it’s my opinion as well.

Take care,

Mike

I completely agree about your follow-up point that an English degree can actually be counterproductive. As we all know (or some will come to know), copy isn’t about informing. It’s about *influencing*. It’s also creative writing at, some might say (and I might be one of them), it’s most dynamic, since a short story about Joe and the flying saucer might not take you to the next income bracket, but lousy copy over a long period of time WILL (and in the wrong direction).

I’ll add a couple of points before shoving off, though…

The bit about “great copy makes sales” is not, in my experience, coming from copywriters. It’s coming from lazy entrepreneurs (talk about mutually exclusive terms that have fused together!) who believe, or rather, delude themselves into thinking that all they need to Think and Grow Rich is sales copy. That they have no business model whatsoever seems to be an inconvenience that can be dealt with “after I start getting some sales.”

Also, I’ll echo a point made above that scoping out a project, at least somewhat, before offering a price/price range is increasingly becoming mandatory. This is not by preference. I’d love to say $$$ for A and $$$ for B and $$$ for C. It doesn’t serve me to distract my prospects with price. But, especially in new media, a harmless little phrase like “web copy” can be something that takes 2 hours (even in super duper copywriting time)or 20 hours.

It’s different — and easier — when an agency project manager or account manager does the front-end work with the client (of course they take a fee for this, and more power to them). But when working directly with clients and developing projects, it’s becoming very difficult to accurately estimate without at least a solid conversation…sometimes two.

To that end, I’d say learning how to interview clients and get them to “think” in terms of marketing and sales is probably the most valuable suggestion I’d make to new copywriters.

Thanks for posting your great article.

It certainly can be a warning sign if a copywriter is reluctant to quote before hearing a budget. But equally, it can be a warning sign if a prospect is reluctant to give a budget. Yet very often, the reasons for both parties being reticent about naming figures are quite benign, and very typical in a successful sales process.

For the copywriter, quoting blind can be a good way to lose sales that otherwise could have gone well. That’s just because often clients have unrealistic expectations. You can manage these correctly and still win the project; or you can manage them badly and scare the client off.

I almost always ask for a budget up front, because what I’m really asking is how much the client expects to pay. Once I know that, I know how I need to approach the quote. If he gives me a low figure, I can discuss options to scale back the project while still giving him the best value for his dollar; and I can give him options which will upsell without breaking his bank. If his budget is high, I can suggest extra items which would add value to the project, should he want to make full use of his money.

When clients are reluctant to give a budget, it can mean they’re tire-kickers. But it can also mean that they just aren’t really sure how much they should expect to pay, and they’re looking to you, the expert, for guidance—because they don’t want to appear silly (or be ripped off). In a situation like that, I won’t demand a budget from them; instead, I’ll help them to set a budget by giving them an estimate, and then managing the project scope depending on how they reply.

Anyway, I realize you couldn’t go into this kind of detail in the article, so I’m not really criticizing; more offering a counterpoint for those reading.

Kind regards,
Bnonn

Patel, ple let me know if you know any good and affordable content writer.

I don’t usually mention it, but I have a bachelor’s degree in English literature, and I’m also a copywriter. And in my opinion, the English lit degree wasn’t very helpful for copywriting.

In fact, it might’ve been counterproductive. Academic writing and copywriting are so different that they might as well be different languages.

When you’re writing an essay about literature, professors look carefully at your research, logic, and understanding of the subtle nuances of the material. They also encourage a more formal writing style with longer paragraphs, big words, and complicated sentence structure.

Good copy, on the other hand, depends on having a strong personal voice, using emotion to persuade the audience, using words everyone can understand, and writing conversationally. Paragraphs are short, sentences are simple, and it reads like a letter to a friend.

It’s totally different, and personally, I had to relearn how to write. It took me probably about two years to make the transition.

Of course, that’s not to imply that the education was worthless. Far from it. I just don’t think it was very useful for this particular profession.

Maybe some schools are different too. I don’t know. Based on my experience though, I think James is right. If you have a degree, that’s great, but it doesn’t justify higher fees. Only a track record of producing results can do that.

On the subject of college degrees: most colleges with a reputable liberal arts program have at least one writing class. I’m a college student at the second largest private university in the country, and I know for a fact that every single one of us has to take two writing classes. I’m not talking about classes where students simply turn in papers. I’m talking about classes that teach specific skills. They do exist.

Also, even if most English programs don’t focus on writing skills, writing about complicated subjects for four years probably can’t hurt. :)

@Shmuck – You’re right – there’s nothing new at all under the sun. But everyone tries their best to bring a new angle or present it in a way that provokes action or reaction (such as your comment shows). Thanks for stopping by to brighten the day!

@Tracey – Try-before-you-buy can be a cool method that works for all parties involved, definitely, and it shows serious confidence!

I agree with Jessica on the fees front (although I acknowledge your response to her and do the same myself — and I’m more than happy to be flexible and work out ways to keep the cost down if that’s what the client wants). I do list some of my fees on my website, but I certainly don’t think you should be regarded as a dodgy copywriter if you choose not to list any or all your fees.

And, like Lucy, I also offer a ‘try before you buy’ service.

The bottom line is that there will always be the unscrupulous few that paint a dark picture of copywriters. But they are, thankfully, in the minority. Most copywriters are good at what they do and, more importantly, genuinely care about their clients — even AFTER they’ve been paid. ;0)